Ryan Duffey Shares the Story of Meridian Putters, Roger Clears Things Up As Usual For Us With His Rules Knowledge, How To Win a Free Entry Into the National Championship!

Speaker 1: 0:45

Well, Tim, happy new year. We're on to 2024. Like we say every year, can't wait to get the season started. See what we would I mean, at least me as a golfer what I can do to improve this year.

Speaker 2: 0:55

Yeah, I hope you had a happy holidays and a happy new year, and first tournament is three days away, but we're ready to get rolling.

Speaker 1: 1:01

Yeah, it's going to be here before you know it. You know, I know some tours start a little bit later than others, but if you sleep on it, it's going to get there a lot quicker than you think. Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:13

Yes, it will. So we got we had two good guests this episode, so let's go and get started. Yeah, let's get it going.

Speaker 3: 1:27

Ladies and gentlemen, golf week amateur tour the podcast talking about all things golf week amateur tour, including interviews with tour directors, players and course pros. Now here are your hosts and Atlanta tour director, Tim Newman, and El Paso last cruises director, Chris Rocha.

Speaker 1: 1:59

Tim, to continue the theme we had with members joining us, you know, and talking about with their businesses, but not only that, but becoming more than just members, for not only the tour. Before the podcast we want to bring on, ryan from Meridian Putters was at the national championship and was demoing his putter designs. That he has and, you know, just being able to talk with him and kind of get an insight of what Meridian Putters actually is is going to be something really cool for us.

Speaker 2: 2:28

Yes, let's go ahead and bring him in.

Speaker 1: 2:30

All right, tim. So we got another one of our special guests that we you know we're going to have for this podcast. I'm real excited for it. I know we've talked about it before and you know we were wanting to get this guest on for a little bit now, but we were able to get him going. So you want to introduce from Meridian Putters, mr Ryan Duffy. Hi Ryan, how you doing. I'm great guys. How?

Speaker 4: 2:53

are you? We're doing good.

Speaker 2: 2:56

Thanks so much for joining us. I really do appreciate it. I'm happy to be here. All of our sponsors are actually members of the tour and I know you're a new member. But what's it looks like how you were actually introduced to the tour.

Speaker 4: 3:10

Sure, I actually. Well, first of all, guys, thanks for having me on. I'm excited to be a part of the podcast. Yeah, I met Dennis, you know, sort of lead man for the Gulf Week AM tour. I met him in Hilton Head at an event we were doing for Sea Pines and Harbor Town. I was called the Lighthouse Invitational and that was last September and we had some discussions, you know, after that event and he said, hey, we have this national championship coming up in about a month at Palmetto Dunes or I guess that's where it was headquartered. And he said, hey, I'd love, I'd love for you to bring out your product. We like what you're doing, I like what the brand's all about. We have some great conversations and I said, sure, we'll come on down, we'll check out this national championship.

Speaker 4: 4:01

And, to be honest, I didn't fully know what to expect. I was, you know, I've been to Hilton Head and I've been going there for 40 years. I was familiar with Palmetto Dunes, I had heard of the Gulf Week AM tour. But when I got down there and saw the setup and saw the event and and saw the numbers over 700 golfers on over eight courses for week one, the seniors for week two and everybody was taking it seriously. I mean, I remember the skins game. It was pouring rain and everybody came out and was playing in the pouring rain. It took me about five minutes to realize, yeah, I can get behind this tour. This is pretty sweet.

Speaker 4: 4:40

And so we spent, you know, the three or four days at Palmetto Dunes for the regular national championship. Then we came back out for the senior tour, you know, the following week, and it was a great experience. So many good guys on the tour. We met people from all over the country. Everybody was just having a great time and you know, that's that's what our brand is all about. So it really felt like, wow, this is, this is kind of a match made to heaven. And spoke with Dennis a little bit after that event and he told me about the podcast that you guys were doing and you know I said, hey, there might be an opportunity here to work together, and that's how we got to this point.

Speaker 2: 5:20

I'm really glad that you joined us. So the late house invitational, that's a pretty big deal, you know, here on the islands and to be number one to be able to play in that is huge because of the access that you get, but also, you know, to be able to play Harbor Town and then to be actually introduced to the tour. From that standpoint, I'm glad that, I'm glad that you did it. I'm glad that Dennis was there Because you know, when you were here for national championship I saw over, you know, over at the Hills course you all were packed every day.

Speaker 4: 5:52

Yeah it was great.

Speaker 4: 5:54

We had a. We had a nice little setup over there. We popped up a tent, we were smoking some cigars and we were just watching as guys came to the driving range and tried to figure it out, and they would. They would come over to the putting green and hit some pots and, you know, if they had a bad day on the greens they were maybe more interested in our potters that had they putted well. So you know, we were able to help some guys out, actually sold a couple of potters right on the spot, which was good, you know. They made five or six pots in a row and they're like we'll take it. So that was, that was encouraging, good feedback. But no, it was more just about.

Speaker 4: 6:31

What I thought was neat was just the whole attitude, that the whole vibe of the event. It was really cool. I was it was my first time and so seeing just the energy around the event, the excitement, you know, everybody coming back to that main clubhouse to check on the scores, you know, and to get the food right, but mostly to check on the scores, it was just. You know, I play a lot of golf and that was by far the biggest event I had ever seen, coordinated in terms of just the number of players and the number of courses, and it just went off so smoothly it was. It was just a very impressive week. I mean it's very impressive two weeks and so, yeah, it was fun to be a part of it. It was great to get to meet so many people and, yeah, when Dennis came and was asking me about, you know, this opportunity I was, I was, yeah, I mean, it was a no doubter.

Speaker 2: 7:21

Chris, were you one of the ones that bought a potter in the spot?

Speaker 1: 7:24

I did not buy a potter. I did see the big tents and and look, I mean there are guys there. Every time I looked over there were guys there trying putters. But you have me working interviews all afternoon so I wasn't able to go try putters but it looked like like a good finding and I'm going through the website as you're telling us about this. You know the putter designs.

Speaker 4: 7:50

They look amazing, but what really caught my eye is it's football head covers you have so you know, we, we have a great partnership with a company actually located in Georgia and they they make all of their head covers in the United States, which is which is very nice. That's, that's a big part of our brand. Our putters are milled right outside of Milwaukee, wisconsin. Everything is done in our shop in Brookfield, wisconsin, and but the head covers, those are also made in the USA and we have a very, I guess, creative designer on staff who he helps us design the clubs. But then when he gets a little free time sometimes he gets into the head cover world and heading into the fall.

Speaker 4: 8:36

There were two football head covers that I wanted. One was just a head cover that sort of looked like a football that had the laces on it. So there's that one. And then I had them design a special one for the for my team, the Green Bay Packers, and it says run the damn ball. And it's literally. It's literally if you look closely at it. It's an offensive play. It's the old Packers sweep. Sometimes I think they they were throw the ball too much. I was very frustrated. I said make a head cover in green and gold that says run the damn ball. And, believe it or not that one sold out I still have a couple of the football head covers hanging around but, yeah, a great partnership with a company in Georgia called EP Head Covers and they've been you know, they've been with us since the start, and so when we get creative or when we do limited releases or putter head covers for events that were a part of they're usually the guy we go to a partner with.

Speaker 1: 9:29

Oh yeah, I love the turkey bowl head cover. That was probably one of my favorites. And then the dead man tells Motel, head cover the Christmas vacation one yeah.

Speaker 4: 9:41

So that one, that one, got a lot of love. That's my favorite holiday movie and I had a couple different designs that I was working with on that one and the the scene where the they dig the tree out, just rest. I don't know, for some reason, that just hit home and I'm like, as he's driving back and looking at the car next to him, look, kids, a deer. I was just like that's perfect. We got to. We got to get that out of head cover. I've got a couple other ones from that movie that we might bust out next year or the year after. We don't want to, you know, launch them all at the same time, but that was that was my favorite one that one did. I think there's like four or six left. We sold that one around Thanksgiving. There must have been a lot of people watch that movie around.

Speaker 4: 10:25

Thanksgiving break because that thing was moving. But again, you know we we try not to take ourselves too seriously. So you know, every once in a while we do it around the majors and then when you know golf season slows down in the fall a little bit in terms of you know that type of golf, we try and get a little bit creative with it.

Speaker 2: 10:42

That's awesome. So tell us more about you know the putters, the processes that you all use and how to go about buying, and we're being fitted for one.

Speaker 4: 10:54

Yeah, so Well, meridian putters calm is the website and right now it's all direct to consumer. We are in a couple of second swing stores and we are in a couple of local, if you're in Wisconsin, like the Nevada Bob's, those types of stores, but we're working on getting into, you know, the bigger box stores. But for now, right now, everything is direct to consumers so you can go online and you can essentially build your putter. Um, we just launched our newest model last week. It's called the Key West. It's a notch back mallet. We have a mid-mallet style putter, we have the classic blade and then we got sort of an old-school blade and that's sort of the stock family of putters.

Speaker 4: 11:35

Everything is milled From a block of 303 stainless steel. So there's no casting, there's no forging, there's no two pieces welded together. It's literally a block of stainless that we take a CNC machine and just literally cut your putter from a block of seals. These are very high quality putters and you know our secret sauce is a. The process is very automated. We have very little direct labor involved in actually making the putter. So what we're able to do is keep our costs down. So you know these are very high quality putters. You know 303 stainless Machined one-piece putters that start at 230 and if you want to, you can Build them up a little bit and you can add some nicer grips. You can have them coated in different colors and the price point will increase.

Speaker 4: 12:28

But my objective with meridian was to make a high quality putter from high quality materials, do it in the United States and sell them at a price point that didn't make the consumer a Queasy right or uncomfortable. Sometimes I see some of these putters out there and they retail or they sell at 500, 600, sometimes even higher, and I I cringe because I know what goes into these things and I know, I know how much steels are there. I know I sort of know what these things cost, and so what I've tried to do is Treat a manufacturing process that makes a high quality product and deliver you know the savings and the value to the customer, because I don't want you to feel nervous or uncomfortable when you're buying a meridian Putter. I want you to feel good about it. Take that money you save and enter a golf league Amtor event. I mean, we Know, but I mean in all seriousness that's. That's the mission is to try and provide a high quality product made of the United States At a price that you can feel really good about.

Speaker 2: 13:35

Well, there all the putters are. You know they're good-looking clubs, yeah thank you. But the question I have for you is you they're all named after South Carolina Harry's and then go to Key West. You know, you got the term and you got the okathe and you got the Thai B. Yep, how did you make that switch from there to all the way down the Key West?

Speaker 4: 13:55

All these places are near and dear to me at my heart. I've been going to Hilton head for 40 years. My wife and I got married in Hilton head. So you know when I, when I thought of this concept, when I thought of this idea, I was actually sitting on the beach at Hilton head. It was during COVID and I had a machine shop. I used to own a machine shop and we had done the prototypes and 3d printing and all that stuff and along the way I had done some work with Nike goal, like six or seven years ago. We had done some putters, we had done some wedges, we had done some drivers. I really enjoyed Prototyping and working with those guys. I'm a big golfer, so that was a blast.

Speaker 4: 14:36

Nike got out of the hard goods business and when my business slowed down during COVID, I had machine, I had steel, I had people and I had nothing to do. And so I was sitting on the beach at Hilton head and I'm like I Want to get back into the putter game. I reached out to some of my old contacts at Nike. One of them was still designing clubs and he was like I'd love to be a part of it. He helped me sort of get four or five concepts from you know, drawing them in the sand to actually, you know, out of cat and into a computer, and I just started naming them after beach towns that I had been to. That sort of resonated with me, that that felt right. And Then this last year we came up with a potter.

Speaker 4: 15:21

That was, you know, we caught, you know all business in the front and kind of like a party in the back. It's a back ballot, you know. So we were like, you know, key West kind of feels. I love key West. So I was like guy, this is just a little different. This thing's a little funky looking. It's a little out there. I'm not sure how the public's gonna react to it.

Speaker 4: 15:40

Um, and so we tried to have a little bit more fun, you know, and as we released more putters, we're actually working on a couple more the, the, the towns will start to spread to different regions of the country. But, um, but yeah, the key West is just I mean, you'll see it when we're at the southern icebreaker here in a couple weeks it's a, it's a not back mallet, sort of a fang Looking putter, it's all one piece which is really unique. It's a big piece of steel that we've machined down to a a really sleek look and, like I said, if you look at her face on it looks, looks like your stock putter, but if you look at it from up top and it's crazy. And so, for some reason, key West just hit home there.

Speaker 2: 16:19

Yeah, like I said, that's a. All of them are good looking, but that that one I I really do like you know how it looks it's.

Speaker 4: 16:25

It's amazing, you know, that putter is, um, if you look at it from the top light, it's a blend of our Charleston, which is our blade, and our tie be, which is our mid mallet. So if you look straight down at the key West, you can see both of the elements of that putter kind of combined in there. And then, because that would be so darn heavy, we had to remove some material. So we created a negative, negative space pocket in there, um, to help with alignment. So, and we were actually kind of thinking about like a race car when we were doing it, we wanted the putter to feel fast, uh, not bulky, not square and slow.

Speaker 4: 16:57

So we tried to make it feel sleek, um, and so I mean it took a lot of design revisions and I mean it was making a funny noise when we first made it, like we'd hit the ball and it would. It would ping a little bit like a higher pitch, should we roll? Like you know, what was that, you know? And and so a lot of testing. I mean it took three or four months of testing and tweaking and modifying until we finally found the right, you know, not to get too technical, but the right design that you know, spread the sound over the, you know the length of the putter and, uh, we really like where it ended up. That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 17:32

Now, if people are gonna buy one, should they already go and know what they're looking for to let custom make it? Or do you just have stock Uh designs out there?

Speaker 4: 17:43

Yeah, so you can go, and I mean when, if you just hop online, you can buy Any one of the models, you can hop on and start to just sort of build your putter. You can choose, obviously, right-handed or left-handed, heavy or light. You know we, all of our putters are either in 330 grams or 370 grams. You can choose the shaft length, you know, from 33 to 37. We, if you're really tall, you know we can, we can go a little bit longer. Or if you're shorter and you want something shorter, you just kind of let us know.

Speaker 4: 18:14

We have to special cut those shafts, um, so you can choose. You know the shaft, like, you can choose to have it coated. If you want it to be a black PVD finish, we offer that, uh, otherwise we offer a stainless, just literally the steel putter itself. Or we could do something kind of cool. We can, oil can it where we literally Set it on. You know we've set it into a flame and the putter will turn kind of this cool gold Uh, and then we'll drop it in oil and you'll get kind of this rustic, like gold finish.

Speaker 4: 18:45

So you can, you can build your putter, um, however you want. Now, if you want something really special. Um, you can just contact us on our web page and we actually have a, a putter print, um, literally like a you know an engineering print that will send you if you say, hey, I want to have Custom coordinates, or I want to have it say my birthday, or I want to have something special on the bottom, we can do that stuff. That takes a little more time and we'll we'll actually contact you and make sure we're on the same page for that. But we've We've done big events for for courses, like for the lighthouse inventational, we engraved a lighthouse on the toe of every putter. Um, for some corporate events, we've engraved the company's logo on the toe of every putter. So we've done a lot of stuff. But that you actually have to reach out and myself or another teammate will will reach out and contact you. Just make sure we're pointing in the right direction.

Speaker 2: 19:40

That's. That's pretty cool, that you can, that you can do that and and really kind of personalize it like that. You know, I, I would think that you know most people that are going to personalize it, they don't really care if it's going to take an extra two weeks, you know, yeah, it's going to be for them right.

Speaker 4: 19:56

Yeah, and usually yeah, and that that's usually the case. You know we have, we have hundreds of putters on the shelf that are, quote unquote, our stock models. You know, you know charleston with a dot or a line, we have those on shelf. But if you say hey, um, you know all of our putters have a coordinate on the toe which is the town that the putter is named after, some people are like, hey, man, I got engaged.

Speaker 4: 20:16

You know Pebble Beach, can you put the pebble coordinates on for me? So, like, if we did something like that, we'd say, hey, that that'll take like a week, maybe 10 days, for us to get that into the pipeline and get that machine for you. So there is, there is a little bit of extra time when we black PVP coat something, that takes five to seven days, um, but for the most part I mean we're turning these things around, even even like a full cost of jolly turned around I'm usually in like three weeks. Then that would be like a long lead time for us and most of the stuff we can turn around pretty quick.

Speaker 2: 20:48

Yeah, I bet that oil can finish. Looks really cool.

Speaker 4: 20:52

It's a really you know, no two bars are ever the same. We literally we put them in an oven, we get them up to about 500 degrees and then we take a blow torch, take two of them actually, and hit both sides of the putter with just a super hot blow torch. Steel temperature will get up to like 800 or 900 degrees and you'll see the putter start to turn colors and sometimes you can get like a cool rainbow effect. Sometimes you know it'll be more like a gold look and then once it's at heat, you take it and you dump it. I mean we have a big kind of a bucket of oil that we just literally like hang them in for you know 10 or 15 minutes and it just the oil just kind of dulls everything out, just kind of smooths the look out, so you don't have any like crazy, you know bright spots or the crazy colors and it just it comes out looking really really clean, kind of an old school look. But yeah, I think they look fantastic, I'm sure.

Speaker 1: 22:03

I mean, if you think about it, the putter is a club that a lot of golfers use the most. I mean I know I put two, three times a whole. So if you're able to show those off, you know 18 holes a day. Your buddies are going to enjoy it and it's something that you want to be able to show off, not just the same putter that your best friend might have, because he put it pretty well when you borrowed it.

Speaker 4: 22:24

Exactly, we, you know that's. You know we're three years into this, so people are starting to, you know, like all very and I've heard of you or I've seen a guy, I've heard you know, like we're at that point right now. We're still obviously new to the market, we're still growing, but yeah, we've, we've seen, you know, a little more name recognition out there being a part of this tour and coming to some of these regionals, which we're really excited to do this year, and introducing our brand to. You know, we're kind of known in the Southeast and the Midwest but maybe heading out West and heading to different parts of the country for some of these events. We're excited about the opportunity to do that and continue to sort of I don't want to say push our brand, but you know, grow and you know, enter different markets. That's a big part of, you know, 2024 for us.

Speaker 2: 23:17

And Chris, you got to give that two or three times a hole down to you know, one to two times a hole. That's part of the problem.

Speaker 1: 23:24

I'm trying.

Speaker 4: 23:26

I'll talk to you, Chris.

Speaker 1: 23:27

Hey, if, if I had a putter that, like you said, that gold, that that oil can finish. I mean, I was looking on the website I I may put four or five times just to show it off it looks great If you're going to.

Speaker 4: 23:40

if you're going to three putt, you might as well three putt with an oil can. Right, there you go, you might as well.

Speaker 1: 23:44

three putt with style, you know, they stay, they say you dress, you dress to impress. Like, hey, I'm going to putt to impress and, and you know, use it for the full advantage. Yep, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 23:57

What's the what's the most popular model right now?

Speaker 4: 24:00

The Charleston, which is which is our blade potter. That that is, you know. I mean that's that's. Everybody's got a blade putter. You know Scottie's got his new port. Ping has the answer. Everybody has their blade model. Ours is the Charleston.

Speaker 4: 24:14

I think it's just the potter most golfers are familiar with and so that that tends to be the number one seller, you know. But there's a lot of things that you know. It seems like a simple potter but as I tell people, like there's a lot of ways to make that potter year on, you know, there's there's 330 grams or 370 grams. You know, if you, if you play on fast greens a lot of people get this wrong but like, if you play on fast greens, you actually want a heavier putter because you want to have a more controlled, slow stroke. So I tell guys, like, listen, if you play fast greens, you know, go to the 370, if you got to hit your pot, if you're playing slow grains, then you want a lighter putter that's easier to keep on pass. So you want the 330.

Speaker 4: 24:56

We offer that in a face balance, we offer that in a mid-slam, we offer that in a plumbers neck. So even though it's like, oh, it's just like everybody else's potter. There's different ways to to to really, you know, making your own and to feel comfortable with it and to sort of fit yourself into a model. So I mean there's a lot that goes into it. But you know, short answer is the Charleston is by far, I mean, I think it's like 55% of the sales. So you know, some form of the Charleston makes up over half of what we sell.

Speaker 2: 25:28

And so you know I understand the face balance one. But what's the? What's the? The benefits of the mid-slam and the and the plumbers neck.

Speaker 4: 25:37

What's the difference? So again, I'm not to get overly technical, but that's going to be an offset thing. So the mid-slam, if you were to look down at your potter and and try and see the putter shaft, how far ahead is the putter shaft of the front of the club face? So our mid-slam is what they call half shaft forward. So half of our putter shaft. If you were addressing the ball, you'd see half of the putter shaft is in front of the club face. Half of it is right on top. The plumbers neck will be a full shaft ahead of the club face. So there'll be a little bit more offset with the plumbers neck. Conceivably. That gives you just a little bit more time to sort of square up the pot. So if you're a guy that feels like you know you're missing pots to the right and you need just that split second more to kind of square it up and at the at address, it looks just a little better to the eye, the plumbers neck might be the version for you. Yeah, and it's. It's just a little difference.

Speaker 4: 26:35

But those little things you know make a player more comfortable and when I tell people is putting is all about comfort. If you're comfortable with this look, you're going to make a better stroke If you get up to something they're like oh man, I don't like the way this feels at all. Well, you know, then you're not going to make, you're not going to make a good stroke and the ball is not going to go in the hole. But if you, if that little difference makes it, makes you feel more comfortable and makes you more relaxed and allows you to make a better motion that you can repeat, yeah, then by all means. You know the plumbers neck would be the version I'd steer you.

Speaker 4: 27:06

So you know even little differences the weight, the grip, all that stuff. You know all that stuff matters. And so when, when we are fitting people, you know we'll be at the Hilton head event coming up, and then at the Vegas event in a couple of weeks when we are out there, that's what I'll tell people is 99. I mean, like, most of this is, find a part of that you're comfortable with and then we can start to say all right, what do you think about the grip, what do you think about the shaft length? And the biggest part is you got to be comfortable with that putter so you make a relaxed stroke, thing you can repeat over and, over and over, especially if you're in a tournament, you know, and there's a little bit of nerves, you know right, you want a putter that you look down and go. Yeah, I feel good with Right.

Speaker 2: 27:47

That's awesome, all right. Last question for me you know you're up in the Milwaukee, you're up in the Milwaukee area. My guess is by now you're. There's no more outdoor golf.

Speaker 4: 27:56

So I think 10 days ago, 10 days ago it was like 55. And we hit, we played, I think, our last round of the year. Today it's like 28. And yeah, the golf courses are closing down. So but you know, anytime you can get around, you can steal around in December. That I mean, that's bonus.

Speaker 4: 28:14

That's pretty good. Yeah, usually we're shoving it down around Thanksgiving, but we had we had a stretch of like mid 50s not too long ago where we were going to take advantage of it, but you know where it really gets dark in like January and February. Up here is one of the snow cops and you know you're. You're you're flying to hill night or you're flying somewhere south. You know that's. We're almost to that point.

Speaker 2: 28:37

So yeah, I was a tour director up in Milwaukee for a year and a couple of years, a couple of years, two years ago, a few years ago, and yeah, I love the guys up there, they're great, but you know, it's just too cold. It's just too cold, oh, yeah. I mean yeah, but you, I mean you've got a great tour up there. You know Edmund Rhodes this is his first year. He's going to do a great job. You should ask him about it. You know he's a former professional wrestler, but you should talk to him about that.

Speaker 4: 29:05

All right, yeah, I did not know that I have to make a note.

Speaker 2: 29:10

He's a character as I, as I look at the putters, and you know how he came up with these names. This is a perfect fit for our guys. I mean this is these are, these are our guys here. I mean we're, you know we're. I'll just leave it at that, it's a family show. It's a family show. It's a family show, yeah. You understand what I'm saying I think so.

Speaker 4: 29:33

I met, I met a lot of the guys down there at the event and, like I said at the start of this, it just felt, you know it was.

Speaker 4: 29:42

I got to kick out of the skins game and the pouring rain and I don't think anybody bailed on it and everybody was practicing and getting ready for the event. And you know guys who love the game of golf right, and Meridian is a brand that we love the game of golf and you know we, we want to be, you know, associated with groups that feel the same way. And so, like I said, when Dennis first approached me, I didn't know what to expect, but very quickly I realized, hey, this is great. You know, I want to be a part of this in some way and so we're excited we're going to have a presence at some of these regionals throughout the course of the year and you know we're, we're going to be kind of spread all over the country year for for, you know, 2024, but where the, where the schedule allows we're, we're definitely going to try it and show up and see guys play for an opportunity to get to that national championship, and we're excited to be a part of it.

Speaker 2: 30:51

All right, ryan, thanks so much for joining us, thanks so much for being a sponsor and I look forward to seeing you in in Hiltonette.

Speaker 4: 30:58

Yeah, we're going to. We're going to try and tee it up. We're going to put pencil to the scorecard. We'll see how. See how it goes. I'm a little concerned, but we're going to give it a shot, Don't be concerned.

Speaker 2: 31:10

I mean you'll be fine.

Speaker 4: 31:13

All right, guys. Thank you so much for having me on. All right, take care, and we'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 1: 31:18

Tim, what a great conversation we had with Ryan and Meridian putter. You know putting is a huge thing that we've talked about before. That's the club that you're probably going to use the most on the course, unless you were one putt every hole, which I don't even think the pros do that, maybe occasionally. But it's great to see you know, to hear the work he's done and how far he's taken his company and just the support he wants to give back to the tour with. You know his partnership with Dennis and then now it's his partnership with us.

Speaker 2: 31:51

Yeah, and it's going to be good meeting him. Yeah, I mean this coming week at the icebreaker in Hiltonette, and then we'll see him again in Vegas in two weeks.

Speaker 1: 32:01

Yeah, I mean I can't wait to try one of these putters and see. But you know I've had a good year with my putter this year, so I don't know if it's going to be tough to get me away from that one.

Speaker 2: 32:13

I think putter, more than any other club though is it's so personal. You know, if you're putting well with one putter, like you said, it's very difficult, hard to change, but if you're not putting well, that's the first thing that goes, and then we start, you know, having a putter collection.

Speaker 1: 32:30

Right, right, I mean I'm my wife's probably happy that I only have two of them when I could have a handful. I mean I have a friend of mine who's one of our members that has, I think, a bag full of putters that he can't decide which one he wants to use. Maybe that's his problem, but yeah, it's one of those things I mean. On mine, I upgraded the shaft just because it was a master shaft and that's my favorite tournament and it brings memories of me watching it with my pops and things like that. So it is personal and it's one of the clubs that you buy a head cover for that shows your style and shows what you're about. So not every other. You know you don't buy clothes for iron. Some people do buy covers for irons, but those are real generic as opposed to the putter covers where it can just show a symbol of yourself out there.

Speaker 2: 33:24

Yeah, exactly, exactly, but it's got like I said, it's gonna be great meeting him yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:28

I mean everyone that we've met has been fun to hang out with.

Speaker 5: 33:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:31

It's it they're. We've had some stories with people that we've been on on as guests and then being able to meet, so it's a good time.

Speaker 2: 33:40

Yeah, most of the stories we can't. You know it's a family show.

Speaker 1: 33:44

We can't, uh, no no, no, no, no, no, no, but it's, it's a good time. Well, I mean, we haven't had this next guest to him on for a long time. You know, as the season ended we kind of wanted to give him a break. He's a great guest on our show, but now that the new season is about to start, you know we're what a weekend away from the first icebreaker kicking off the season. So we wanted to bring Roger back on our show to go in and let's just talk about golf and some some new rules that may be coming up. Roger, welcome to the show.

Speaker 5: 34:18

Thank you very much Glad to be back for a 2024. The rules never stop and I can always keep learning and uh, and I'm sure you're, uh, all those listeners, uh, there's always something new around the corner. So glad to be back for 2024 and happy new year.

Speaker 2: 34:37

Yeah, happy new year to you too, and I know you're a little under the weather, but thanks for jumping on and hope you had a good Christmas too.

Speaker 5: 34:44

I did, uh, listening to you guys say about Hilton head and the icebreaker. I happen to have a timeshare but it's always the one week later than the time than the uh Hilton head icebreaker. So I got to get that switched to a week earlier because I'll be there the following Saturday and I'll play some of the courses down there. So I'm going to maybe this year I'll look at seeing if they can swap my week for a week earlier. But if you guys are going there, I'll best of luck to you guys.

Speaker 2: 35:11

But well, I'll be there, but I'm, you know I'm not playing, uh, but I'm the week after that, chris and I will both be out in Vegas.

Speaker 5: 35:19

Nice, very nice, all right. Well, chris, I know you had uh, you, I think it was you had presented a question to me and the probably happens in Vegas about, uh, what if a ball gets stuck in like a cactus tree or a cigarro Is that how you pronounce it? Those trees that are out there?

Speaker 1: 35:37

Yeah, they have all different names, but people usually go with that. But yeah, what would you do in that situation?

Speaker 5: 35:43

So first of all, uh, I have a family out in Phoenix, so I've had that situation, I've seen that and, to be honest, the first time I saw that and I was like what the why is that? Why are those trees all popped with these holes? And I realized it was golf balls. It was like it was just funny to see and I was like, look at that.

Speaker 5: 36:03

So first of all, you have to if you're bald, you get hit him into one of those you would definitely have to be able to identify that it is your ball. And I don't know if that's even possible, but I suppose it could be. And just like on tour, when you see the guys with binoculars and all that kind of stuff, you have to be able to identify that it is your golf ball. That's key point number one. And if it means you know maybe they're, maybe it didn't go in high enough, that's so high that you could actually see there and walk up to it and see it. So once you have identified that it's your ball, you can play that under the unplayable ball rule and the key on that is you identify it. But then, so your ball is 20 feet up in the air, let's say you have identified it.

Speaker 5: 36:52

While there are three different things you can do in the unplayable ball rule, and with regard to that one, one of them is that you can take lateral relief within two club lengths, and the rules do have in it that from where the ball is up in that tree, you put your spot for taking that relief directly under where that ball is on the ground.

Speaker 5: 37:16

So you know you drop the ball right down under the tree and then take your two club length relief as one of your options. And then your two other options are stroke and distance, which is always an option for an unplayable ball, you know, go back to where you hit it originally. And your third is the back on the line relief. You know you tick, placing the ball, dropping the ball on the back on the line, in line with where it's in the tree, to where the hole is. And those other two, that basic two, are the ones you often think of, but the one that throws people off is when it's in the tree and you really want to be able to drop it right where that tree is. You just drop it right below the tree within the two club lengths. So that is allowed. That's like an exception in the rules that you're allowed to do that, and you know that must happen pretty often, because I saw a lot of balls in those trees when I was out in Arizona there.

Speaker 1: 38:18

Yeah, they're funny to see because even the ones near the tee box they're just hovered in holes and you mix. Your wonder how those got all those holes so quickly.

Speaker 5: 38:29

Yep, I don't recall putting any in there, but I'd love to see it sometime. What is the when you go to Vegas? So you guys are playing in Vegas, or you?

Speaker 2: 38:40

Yeah, no, we're doing a live broadcast, but Chris is playing Nice. Yeah, so we'll do a live broadcast on Saturday after the round and Sunday after the round.

Speaker 5: 38:49

Gotcha, I hope that goes, goes well for you. So yeah, that, just so ball into and that's you know. Same with, even if it's not a cactus, a regular tree, as long as you can identify it. You're able to take those three options to two club length, lateral relief, back on the line relief and stroke and distance for an unplayable ball.

Speaker 2: 39:13

Chris, you making you guys climb up the cactus and identify your ball.

Speaker 1: 39:18

No, I'm not making them do any of that, but we do make fun of them if we find out that they did hit a strain at the cactus.

Speaker 2: 39:25

That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 39:27

I did have another question that I saw on break about if your ball accidentally hits a club that's near the green. For some reason this video said it wasn't a penalty, but I thought it was. Or did it change?

Speaker 5: 39:46

I am yeah, because you threw out there that it changed. I can look it up, but as far as I'm concerned it is not a penalty, that's a. It's not a penalty. That's my understanding of it. I'll follow up. I don't know if you want to include this in the podcast, but as far as I know it's not a penalty as long as it wasn't placed there purposely to deflect the ball.

Speaker 5: 40:14

If it was an accident, just think about somebody could have left the club up on the green from the last group. Your ball hits that. You should not be penalized. That's how I like to think of that one. You wouldn't be penalized for somebody else's mistake like that. But if you place your clubs behind the hole and you have a fast putt, you place your clubs behind the ball, behind the hole, and the ball would hit that. That was your fault for placing it back there and maybe you're using it as a backstop. There could be a penalty assessed then because you used it as a backstop. So it kind of depends on the situation. But just an accidental deflection of the ball by an outside object like that would not be a penalty as far as I know in that situation.

Speaker 2: 41:06

That makes sense.

Speaker 1: 41:09

I figured it was legit because it was from the USDA homepage, but just wanted to make sure with our rules guy.

Speaker 5: 41:20

Well, you're missing the USDA. I just thought I'd let you guys know. So I have a couple of fun things I'm doing. This year In March I'll be attending the three and a half day USDA rules of golf workshop in Richmond, virginia. This year. They hold them throughout the country and the one locally for me. The closest one's going to be in Richmond and it's three, three and a half days of total rules instructions. It'll have I think it's run by the USDA and the local Virginia State Golf Association and a lot of the PGA professionals that are trying to get their PGA certification. They have to attend these to get points towards their certification. So there'll be some of those guys. There's guys just like me that will be there and just like Losels, so I'm looking forward to that in first week into March. It's awesome.

Speaker 2: 42:14

Yeah, and it's good as close, I mean for you.

Speaker 5: 42:18

Right, yeah, and my son lives in Richmond, so I'll probably, and I got friends in Richmond so I'll be able to stay with them, so it'll be a good time.

Speaker 2: 42:25

That's good, All right. So, Roger, I got another question for you. So let's say you know you mark your ball in the green and you then accidentally drop the ball and it rolls into like a drain or a water hazard and you can't find it, you know. So you can't actually finish the whole. You know, with the, with the same ball that you started, what do you do?

Speaker 5: 42:47

So, as long as it was not deliberate that the other person, that the person, lost the ball deliberately. Let's say you picked up that ball and you got mad because you just missed a one foot putt and you hit it with your putter and you hit it off the green and it rolls into water and that was deliberate, okay, and you lose that ball. But let's say that wasn't the case. You just accidentally drop it and it rolls into a drain.

Speaker 5: 43:14

Under rule 14.3, you're allowed to substitute another ball, as long as that ball that was lost was not deliberate. There are exceptions when you're allowed to substitute a ball and that happens to be one of them. When you're dropping in a relief area, you can substitute another ball, and when you're playing like from stroke and distance, you can substitute another ball. But in the case, like you said, you lose it accidentally, maybe you throw it to your, throw it to your caddy and he misses it and it rolls into a water hazard and you can't recover it, no problem, you can just replace your ball as substitute another ball. Okay, no, no penalty incurred. Yeah, and that's under rule 14.3.

Speaker 2: 44:01

Yeah, I was playing with a guy in Hilton had a couple of years ago and you were standing on a bulkhead and he's bouncing the ball off the bulkhead and it had bouncing to the water, yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:16

I mean, but would that be incidental, or would that be on purpose?

Speaker 5: 44:21

Yeah, that's a tricky one there, or just stupidity.

Speaker 2: 44:30

I would say that's incidental. That's what I was yeah, incidental. Yeah, my next question would be how much are we playing for? And then I'll make that decision Right. Are you up or not?

Speaker 5: 44:40

Now if you substitute a ball accidentally and you make a stroke with that ball and you weren't allowed to, you do get a one stroke penalty and you have to continue to play with that ball for that hole. Let's say you put your ball in your pocket in the situation you didn't lose the ball. Let's say you put your ball and you pull out another ball, you place that ball down on the green and you putt with that ball. Well, that's a penalty actually and you would still play with that ball to finish out the hole and you would incur one stroke penalty.

Speaker 2: 45:20

What's the reasoning on that? We only use one ball rule for major tournaments or national championship. What's the reasoning behind that? If you're playing the same ball, why would it matter?

Speaker 5: 45:37

You're referring to the one ball rule, versus. To see, I was thinking more like somebody puts down a putt, the ball they like to putt with versus one they don't like to putt with. When you're playing the one ball rule, which is even in the local rules that we have for the one ball rule, which is designed for only Premier Gap, the highest level of play, the one ball rule is supposed to be put into effect. I suppose for your average player there would not be any difference. It's a rule that's been on the books forever. Though why they have that there? I'm sure at some point there was something in the rules that occurred that made the ruling body think that it probably had to do with, let's just say, cheating and I hate to use that word as a rule of just cheating, but it does happen. Something happened that they needed to enforce something with not being able to put in another ball.

Speaker 1: 46:50

Tim, I'll answer that question for you. I had numerous times where people ask if they can use a putting ball and I finally got to the point where I asked why what's the difference?

Speaker 1: 47:00

And they say because it's a brand new ball, there's no scuffs, there's no dirt marks, there's no imperfections that could happen within that hole. Let's say you get the cart path right and it scuffs up your ball and now you're on the putting green. Well, if it rolls over that scuff, it could direct it one way or the other, but a putting ball, you know it's almost brand new, so there's nothing that's going to interfere with it. And that's where I was like okay, that explains why the rule is you have to use that same ball throughout the hole. And I had to clarify that but probably my second or third season as director clarify it for a couple of rounds that you have to use the same ball throughout the hole and then, after you hold out, then you can decide to change the ball or not.

Speaker 1: 47:43

But that's where we got really into making sure you mark the ball and that you're playing partners. No, but I mean, that's what I was told was the reason why this guy wanted to do a putting ball. And then it was that the one that was, I think, Taylor made did it, where it was half one color and half the other. Right, you could see it roll down better, but he didn't like to hit with it because it confused him when it was spinning in the air.

Speaker 2: 48:08

But did you tell him he's not that good anyway.

Speaker 1: 48:12

So I know. I was a new director. I had to be nice about it, but it can. That's the reason. Why is so that they don't have a ball that I see that I could tackle, but you know, golfers, they try to take advantage of the best they can, whenever they can.

Speaker 5: 48:29

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, cause, yeah, that putting ball thing always seems to work be the one that pops up.

Speaker 2: 48:35

Yeah, that just kind of makes me wonder. You know, on a different level, you know us amateurs, you know we may use the same ball, the same ball, over 18 holes or six holes or whatever, until we lose it. We're like Chris says, we scuffle it up on the car path or whatever. I wonder how many balls a professional uses over the course of a run Three. Are they changing ball every hole or they just playing the same ball all the way through?

Speaker 1: 49:03

I heard Tiger switches his ball every three holes.

Speaker 2: 49:07

That's great, that's I mean, he can do it, he gets, they're free for him though. Right, and I guess when, when you have that, have a swing speed like that and you're and you're really compressing that ball, you know, over time, over that many hits, I'm sure it does have a it takes some of the performance out of the ball. Sure, it does, it has to.

Speaker 1: 49:31

I think that'd be a question we need to ask. You know Mr Jasper's, or our high champ flight guys, mr Kim? You know the Minnesota director? Yeah, yeah, yeah, baton Matos. Yeah, we need to ask them how many times they switch, or when they switch the ball, because I think that's as close as we're going to get to professional, but to the point where they still have to buy their own golf ball.

Speaker 1: 49:55

And I think that makes a big difference. They have to buy their own box of golf balls. You know, they're not going to switch every three rounds, because they can just give it away to a kid and get a free box at the end of the round, right? So I think that might make a little difference. But once I see that a ball in my personal opinion, once I see that a ball, I don't feel like I want to play with it anymore. I still keep it and I use it as a fun round ball, you know. So I'm not using a good ball. Well, if it's real bad, I'll just put it in the hitting bay and just smack it around there, because I don't need to know where it goes at that point. I just need to know if I'm making good contact and go from there. But if we want to get that question answered truly, I think we need to go to as close to a professional as we can without knowing that they get golf balls for free.

Speaker 2: 50:41

Yeah, I had a Chan Flight player in DC a number of years ago. His name was Kelly Holiday, he was in the military, he was in the old guard and he told me one time he buys two dozen balls a year. Geez, that's it. Wow. So I mean, and obviously he was obviously a good player, but two dozen balls I would probably go. I mean even when I was playing and playing pretty well, I'd probably go through two dozen balls in probably three months.

Speaker 1: 51:10

Yeah, I was a good guess. I'd agree with that.

Speaker 5: 51:13

Well, I'll tell you if Jicks had a special on my golf ball that I just bought two weeks ago. They had a 48 pack for 40 percent off. There you go. I'll test this theory and I'll change mine and we'll see if my scores improve, because I got a lot of golf balls to go through right now. I still had some left over from this past year, so I probably have 60 of what I play right now there you go?

Speaker 2: 51:37

What ball do you play?

Speaker 5: 51:39

I have a Max Fly that I prefer, yeah, so right now it's a Max Fly. It's called the Max Fly Straight Fly Sounds like you know. I was supposed to go a little straighter, so that's what I play. I have a very soft golf ball, but I hit it pretty well, so I'm happy with it.

Speaker 2: 51:55

Well, you know, to me a ball is just like a putter, right? I mean, you got to find one that you like and that feels good for you. And from what I understand, when they talk about feel, it's not necessarily feel, it's about sound. Yep, you know, yeah, and spin, and how it reacts on the green and all these other things.

Speaker 1: 52:16

So if you've got a ball that works for you, use it. That's right. So I'm dealing with that at the beginning of 2023 and it's not an easy process to go through, especially if you're not going through a ball fitter, and it's very expensive to go through that testing by yourself. I'll tell you that much.

Speaker 1: 52:34

Especially trying to find courses that just allow you to buy a sleeve of them, that you know, that's always the best. But when you can't find anyone with a sleeve and you have to buy a whole box and then you don't like it, it can get very, very painful at some point.

Speaker 5: 52:49

That's how you need good kids, at Christmas too, to give you golf balls. There you go.

Speaker 2: 52:53

That's it, yeah, so, roger, I got one other one. It's kind of a strange one. It happened in a PJ tour and you know, I didn't see it. I just kind of read an article about it where I think it was. Colin Morkawa and Matt Fitzpatrick were playing against each other and I think Colin's caddy wrote some things from a green, you know slope or what have you. You know, when they were doing the practice run he wrote, we wrote him down on the back of their card and apparently somebody questioned him about it and he got penalized for it. How does that actually work, right?

Speaker 5: 53:36

So I'm glad you brought this up because really I did this a few times during last year's sessions talking about local rules, and I always wanted to make the disclaimer and I still might in 2024, before we talk about the rules that anything I talk about is with regard to the rules and that there are no local rules in play. But what you're asking me is something that was a local rule, and a lot of these local rules are things that we see on TV that do have apply to the professionals, and what happened with Colin is called Model Local Rule G11, which restricts the use of green reading materials and how those are used throughout a round. But before I even go into that and I'm just this is just general knowledge for you and your listeners so we all know there's the rules of golf, which is there's basically 25 sections to the rules of golf. Then within the rules of golf, there's committee procedures and those are the Model Local Rules. Is section 8 of that and there are 13 Model Local. And then, within the Model Local Rules, there's like this one, g11, which deals with restricting the use. There's 11 different situations that are presented within that Roll Local Rule. Another one, g12, has 12 sections G has 12. There's all these other rules within the rules that we hardly ever even talk about because there's so many of them, and then they're all called the Model Local.

Speaker 5: 55:20

So within this one, that happened with Colin. So he used, prior to the round, he used some sort of gauge on the putting green to determine slope and you know slope, of how the ball is sloping on greens. He used an actual, like a physical gauge, and that's okay to do prior to the round. You can do whatever you want, and then, within the Model Local Rules are this rule it's a rule that doesn't apply to us as amateurs, but if you put this rule into effect, it restricts the use of what aids you can, you can use, and that even means the little book that the players can carry around. And I just wanted to read you, read you something. It's to ensure that players and caddies use only their eyes and feel to help them read the line of play on the putting green and in order to ensure that the committee may further restrict the use of green reading materials by requiring players are limited, and limited through their round, to using only the yardage book that has been approved for use in competition and that includes not being able to use notes and calculations and things that they may have gotten from, like a tool that Colin did.

Speaker 5: 56:44

So let's say he had this tool on the putting green and I don't know what kind of ballads tool he used, but let's say it was something like he knew that if it was every three feet of slope on the green translated to one inch of break in the ball In the ball on the putting green.

Speaker 5: 57:04

Now, if he just remembered that in his head, that would have been okay for him to use that knowledge that he got from that tool. But once he transferred that knowledge and put it down on his green reading materials, on his little book, like he wrote down Okay, three feet equals one inch. That's where the problem lay and that's what happened with Colin. And remember I'm just using an example here, I'm not exactly sure what gauge or he used, but he transferred this knowledge and actually wrote it down in his little yardage book. And when he referred to that and like, use that to calculate, that's where he got into trouble and a penalty was occurred. If he just remember it and memorize what it is, that's okay and that's using your own knowledge just stuck in your head, but when you write things down like that, that's where it wasn't okay for Colin, so that's what happened to him and that's how he got penalized.

Speaker 2: 58:02

You know, I kind of liken that to you know, I don't know if you know about the, the aim, the aim point process of putting. So I've been through the training and it's all. It's all based on feel. So, like you know, you stand, you know, with your feet straddling your ball and then you go about halfway in between the ball and the whole stand and you just kind of feel the slope and you and you kind of give it a gauge, I think it's one to three or one to five, and from that point then you go back to your ball and you hold your hand out with the number of fingers that you, that the field was, and then put that up against the stick and then you go to the outside of those fingers and that's your aim point. That's really kind of the same thing, but you're doing it from memory and you don't necessarily have to write it down. Even though they have those, they have books for that. That tells you that process as well.

Speaker 5: 59:04

Yeah, that's all for memory. You said, though right, yeah, yeah, that sounds like that would be okay, right. And even in the in the, in the book, it does say that that local rule is really intended for only the highest levels of competition, and even our one ball rule it actually states it for the same thing the highest. So I know we use the one ball rule and we have a good reason to use it, but I'm actually kind of surprised that we use it and I know we just instituted it up. Really, I think it's only been a couple of years now that we've used it. We've used it for a couple of years now that we've used the one ball rule. But it does say in the it's for the highest levels of competition. But I just want to question that, your listeners and all that. A lot of what we see on TV is due to local rules, and we just got to be careful when we're, you know, maybe telling somebody else. Well, I saw this on TV. It could have been a local rule that was in effect.

Speaker 2: 1:00:06

Right, you know we also use the no green reading devices as well. You know, that's right, that's it. That's for every tournament too. But you know, at at some point, you know, you know there's guys that have played the courses over and over and over again, that had those notes from from how many times they played it.

Speaker 5: 1:00:26

So I don't. Of course I don't get to play with the champ, got like guys, but I don't do. What do you guys have players that actually use, like the yardage, books and notes and stuff?

Speaker 2: 1:00:36

Yeah.

Speaker 5: 1:00:37

You do.

Speaker 2: 1:00:38

I do, yeah, interesting, yeah. And, roger, you know I'm not, I'm not talking about anybody's game here at all, and but I know people from Cham fight all the way to deflight that, use it. And you know I mean that's you, do what you got to do, but to me sometimes it's it's information overload. You're, you're, you're probably not good enough to even have to worry about it, right, I mean, does it really matter for, for, for a C flight player, a 10, a 10 yard difference? Probably not.

Speaker 5: 1:01:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:01:15

You know?

Speaker 5: 1:01:15

Yeah, just think it pays to play, and all that.

Speaker 2: 1:01:17

Yeah.

Speaker 5: 1:01:18

We got to be careful yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:01:20

But I mean I won't, I won't tell anybody, they can't, they can't do it. I mean you do what you do. I mean if it's in the rules. But you know, for me I obviously I don't play very much anymore, but you know, I take if it's car path. Only I take a bunch of clubs. I look at it, okay, it looks like 150 yards. Here's a club I'm using. It's what? If it's 140, great, if it's 160, great. I'm going to hit it 150 yards, hopefully, and and I'll be somewhere in the middle.

Speaker 5: 1:01:48

Got it yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:01:50

Yeah, no, I was just gonna say I think the best thing that's ever happened to me was I lost my range finder and I decided to not replace it and only go with the, the GPS middle of the green, and that's all I would get all last year and I mean sometimes you get a little long, like you said, sometimes you get a little short, but as long as you're on the green and you're putting for birdie, that helps your score a lot yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:02:14

And look what it did to your handicap. Yeah, just trying to think so much.

Speaker 1: 1:02:18

It takes the thinking out of it, right.

Speaker 2: 1:02:21

Well, roger thank you so much for jumping on and look forward to you know a regular contributor again as we pick this thing up.

Speaker 5: 1:02:31

Yes, sir, glad to do it again. Our first tournament for the Tidewater Tour is towards the end of February, so I'm going to try to get some rounds in before then get some practice in, and I'm looking forward to it. Sounds good. Appreciate it, guys.

Speaker 2: 1:02:47

All right, you take care and get better soon.

Speaker 5: 1:02:49

Thank you. Thanks a lot, bye bye, yep.

Speaker 2: 1:02:53

Well, chris, it's good to talk to Roger again. I miss talking to him. After you talk to somebody on a regular basis for so long and then you don't talk to him for three months, it's good to hear his voice.

Speaker 1: 1:03:04

Yeah, he is a big part of what makes our podcast special and I know people have come up and said that you know, having him on there has clarified a lot of rules and it'll be nice to have him, you know, back on for this season.

Speaker 2: 1:03:21

Yeah, and he always gives us good information. You know, sometimes you know you jump down a rabbit hole like he's talking about all the different you know model local rules that nobody ever really knows about, because there's so many of them that sometimes don't even pertain to us as amateurs.

Speaker 1: 1:03:38

Right it was. I was laughing inside when he kept going you know it's off of this rule and this rule and this rule, it's like Jesus. How many you know this? Make golf easier for everybody.

Speaker 2: 1:03:49

Exactly, I think over the last few years, let's just say the last four or five years, I think, they've tried to make the rules a little bit easier, to understand a little bit easier, you know, to make the game more fun. You know, just like you know, for example, the idea that you had with um. If there's a club up by the green and your ball hits, hits the club, you know it's not, it's not your fault that some knucklehead left his clubs there. You're not trying to hit that, you're trying to put the ball in the hole.

Speaker 1: 1:04:23

Right, right. And when I saw that I thought it was pretty cool to see and, um, I just want to. I mean, I knew it was, it was legit, it's from USGA. But you know, growing up everyone was like you don't want to put your clubs there, you don't want to have them there and it. You know it makes you worry. But now to be able to clarify that it's been nice.

Speaker 2: 1:04:44

So looking forward, looking forward to having them back one again in February. But you know, as you know, the first tournament is three days away and if you're not ready, you better get ready pretty quick.

Speaker 1: 1:04:57

Yeah, it's, it's here before we know it and, uh, I believe it's a pretty big field for that event, so it's going to be a tough competition.

Speaker 2: 1:05:06

Yeah, it's sold out in Hilton Head and, yeah, there, like you know, like we talked last episode, there's a couple of other tours that haven't, that are having local events that week and, um, you know, next week you and I are together again in Vegas, so it's going to be fun.

Speaker 1: 1:05:24

Yeah, I can't wait for that either. Hopefully the weather cooperates. Uh, not on wood, but uh, you know me, I don't deal with the cold.

Speaker 2: 1:05:33

Or or rain or heat, or you know, heat I'm okay with.

Speaker 1: 1:05:37

If I can have some shorts on, I mean I'll deal with it. But 80s with a slight breeze, and you know rain isn't that bad, because we've had a share of rain here, but when it, when you're not prepared for it, it's mentally threw me off. Okay, it was the one time on the biggest stage of the year and one of the best rounds I was having and it just threw me off. But we we learned from it.

Speaker 2: 1:06:02

And you'll be all right. And you know what, while you're, if it is bad weather out there, out in Vegas, you know I'll be in the club house, or you know I'll run over to the casino for a couple of hours.

Speaker 1: 1:06:13

Well, while you guys got there, and we were the cold just rubbing it in. I see how I'm going to text you for some coffee or something.

Speaker 2: 1:06:22

I know what you're talking about. They got to have got to have your phone off in the casino, you know. So you know, at the end of national championship last, last, last year already, right, right, you know we're hanging out and you know something? Something came up. A tour director, not to be named, was wearing an ugly shirt and we all had a good laugh about it and we kind of came up with the whole idea of having a a shirt contest, with the winner winning pre-entry into national championship. And I know we've talked about it, you know, in the last couple of episodes, but you know, now that we're here, now the tournament's ready to start.

Speaker 2: 1:07:07

I think we should just go ahead and lay it all out for everybody so that they know, and you know from the first tournament all the way through August, anybody can participate in this as long as you're, you know you're, you're playing in a golf week sponsored event, hey, that you get points for. You have to be getting points for. Okay, correct, starting. You know the first tournament of the year. You want to break it down for everybody.

Speaker 1: 1:07:38

Yeah. So keep in mind, guys, this is going to be a legit competition we're having. I mean, the prize says for itself, but from January 6th which is the icebreaker on the east coast all the way through August 31st you will have a chance to enter in your unique slash different shirt. But all entries must be received by Sunday, September 1st at noon. So even those guys, I believe we have a couple of regionals that weekend. I know the TPC ones that weekend, and then French lick is also that weekend. So you have a chance to enter in a shirt those last couple of days, but don't don't sleep on it, because it'll be hearing gone before you know it. Right?

Speaker 2: 1:08:36

Now, now the shirt. It must be the top layer, okay, so it cannot be worn under anything, such as a jacket or sweatshirt, and you have to be wearing it the entire round.

Speaker 1: 1:08:46

Yes. So if it's cold in your area and you're golfing and you want this shirt to be part of the competition, I suggest you layer up on the bottom. I don't know how that might affect your golf swing, but maybe you enter, or maybe you wait and see throughout the year if you can enter it in. But as this competition starts getting the word around, it's going to get tough as the ones go on.

Speaker 2: 1:09:11

Now, how are we going to verify some of these things? So, number one you must have a group picture, but you've got to have a group picture with you and your playing part. You also have to have an individual picture and in both those pictures you have to be wearing the shirt.

Speaker 1: 1:09:28

Yes, that is guaranteed. You also must upload the pictures to Facebook Facebook only and the description of the post must include the players name, the local tour, the course you were playing at and the date of the event. So again, players, name, local tour, course you're playing at and the day of the event, and the national tours Facebook page must be tagged along with our contest hashtag. If you're not following the national tours Facebook page, I suggest you do so.

Speaker 2: 1:10:07

Yeah, we'll have all this stuff out on our website here in the next couple of days, with the hashtag and everything else, so that everything's there, so everybody is on the same page. Now, each month, all entries will be voted on through Facebook, and the type of shirt that we're looking for it's either a classic regional or state shirt. So, for example, if you're from Texas, like Chris, if you've got a unique Texas based shirt to wear, or a Southeast shirt that kind of picks the Southeast region or the state of Texas, or, let's just say, a shirt that depicts South Carolina or the Southeast region of the United States, and again, no, you don't necessarily have to be from that area to wear the shirt. That's correct.

Speaker 1: 1:11:13

If you're from New York and you find a shirt with a bunch of cactuses on and you want to enter that one in, by all means show us that shirt. We're looking for something that is, like Tim said, unique, but also maybe out of your box, a shirt that you probably would never wear but you want to enter in. I would definitely start looking and seeing what you can find.

Speaker 2: 1:11:40

So there's going to be eight monthly winners, right? So we got January through August, so there'll be eight monthly winners. Each of the monthly winners will win a free shirt, a free golf week shirt. Now in September, all eight monthly winners will then go head to head in a March Madness Bracket Style Competition that will go on for three weeks and ultimately the winner of that Bracket Style Competition will win free entry into National Championship.

Speaker 1: 1:12:16

Yeah. So keep an eye out, or keep an ear out, for a special episode so that me and Tim are ranking the top eight winners, one through eight, and get in that bracket set up and then you'll go to the Golf Week Facebook page and that's where you, the listeners, will vote on each winner and as the days go on, you know, we'll have the winners compete against the other winners in the Bracket Style until we have our final champion at the end of September, with their trip or their entry fees to the National Championship paid for.

Speaker 2: 1:12:56

Yes, this could be fun. So, understanding, the only only ranking that Chris and I are doing are the final eight. So everybody on Facebook is going to be voting for each monthly winner and each weekly winner. Once we get into the Bracket Style Competition, this is a chance for our listeners and Golf Week members and their families, you know to really get involved and engage the brand and have fun with us on Facebook.

Speaker 1: 1:13:31

Yes, and I mean, I think, what the more important thing is make sure you're tagging the Facebook page, because if you're not, we may never even see it and you won't have a chance that month to participate. So definitely, you know, tag that Facebook page, enter in as many times as you like and hopefully you get picked as one of those top eight and have a chance at winning a paid National Championship.

Speaker 2: 1:14:02

Yeah, I can't stress enough, and Chris said it you have to tag the National Page and you also have to use the hashtag, because that's how we're going to search, that's how we're going to search to find each monthly entry and, like I said, we'll have this post up on the website and I know it'll come out in newsletters for everybody to see, so that once this weekend coming up is over, hopefully the entries will start flooding in.

Speaker 1: 1:14:35

I've got a couple shirts in mind in my closet. Am I allowed to enter?

Speaker 2: 1:14:42

Employees with a golf wager or not.

Speaker 1: 1:14:45

I'll use mine as an example. Then You'll see it, probably in Vegas. So I'll use mine as an example.

Speaker 2: 1:14:52

That'll be fun. By the way, you bring it to Vegas. We've talked about it. It's going to be a great time for you know I talked we weren't originally planning to go, but once we decided to go, I'm really looking forward to it and it's going to be exciting. We're going to have a good time.

Speaker 1: 1:15:10

Yeah, anytime that we all are able to get together, it's always a blast. I'm going to bring a little special guest with me in my suitcase for Gabe, if he's listening, and I'll be rocking that all. I'm going to look at that as All practice or, you know, warm up session. It might be hanging off my car, we'll see. We'll see what we find, all right.

Speaker 2: 1:15:33

I'll be looking forward to it. Bye, so, with the 2024 season starting, what is it that you're going to be working on for your golf game this year? Because, you know, last year at this time, you know, you were in the sea. No, you just been bummed to the B flight and you were kind of down on yourself. That's going to be tough, it's going to be this, it's going to be that, and then you turn around and had a phenomenal year. So what are you going to be working on this year?

Speaker 1: 1:16:00

Yeah, I actually went back and looked at my goals that I set for 2023 and how they were yesterday in my JNAP and as far as the golf goals are concerned, I didn't hit the mark. I hit one out of three. As far as statistics wise is concerned, you know I did have win two events in B flight. I won three. I wanted to be top three on points. I was number two. I wanted to be top 50 at Nationals, tied for 25th. So those were pretty easy. But I think those are a big spectrum goal that you know you have what 16 tournaments throughout the year. To win two. You're going to sneeze out at least one, at least one. So those are good. But what I need to work on is my putting, and I set myself a goal for 28 to 30 putts per round and I was having almost 34 putts per round. So if I take those four putts out, you know I'm below 80, 81, maybe in the 70s of per round, which is phenomenal.

Speaker 1: 1:17:09

Greens and regs I wanted to be about 40%, which is about 78 holes per round. I was 34%. So I need to be more accurate on those approach shots or even getting a chance to get those greener regs, but the fairways I was very pleased with. I wanted to be above 60%. I was 63% and you know, off the tee I was really struggling when I was in at the end of sea flight, getting in the B flight, and I felt that my yardage wasn't going to be good enough. So I was over swinging and I finally just decided to just hit the ball and figure out what I needed to do with my second shot.

Speaker 1: 1:17:48

I think I was more concerned about it at national, seeing that I would hit my tee shot and still be a high hybrid and people were using irons in and they were 30, 40 years ahead of me and just you know, changing that mindset was able to just stay in the fairway and having a chance to get greens and regs and getting those two putts for parts. So you know, putting and approach shots is what I'm going to work on this year Kind of stay more focused on those and not try to have the hero shot every time and just get it up there and get a chance to be putt and not tripping Right.

Speaker 2: 1:18:26

Well, you know, here's the other way to look at it. I obviously always want to work on putting, always want to work on making sure they're written the greens. But you know, if you work on your chipping, even when you miss a green and you get it close, right, right, yeah. If you get inside three feet every time, okay, you're still making par, as opposed to both, right, right, and I'll take that.

Speaker 1: 1:18:55

And I agree with you and I think the second round at National really showed that, because if I was within five feet I was making it, it was automatic. But those were for you know, maybe save par, maybe save bogey. I think that second round was the worst of the three rounds I had and it was all because my approach shots where I'm getting anywhere near chipping, I was still having to pitch or a short wedge shot in. I remember my playing partners were saying if we were a four man scramble we'd use your drive every time and your putt and we stay away from your second shot and not even let you hit but do the rest. Because that's all I had that round and I think those, those five feet and in putts that were going in, kind of saved my position to be able to do what I needed to do.

Speaker 2: 1:19:52

And also being smart. You know, making sure you miss in a right spot. Right, like you said, not trying to make a hero shot. Right, you know, make a smart decision and if you miss it's not going to hurt you. Right, you're in a good position to recover, to get up and down. You're in, maybe, maybe you're in a good position on the green as opposed to, you know, be above the hole. You know just just things like that. But again, it takes practice and you know, I think the one thing with you is you're going to be playing all over the country this year, right, right, literally, you're going to be playing all over the country. You're really going to see how courses play different depending on where you are in the country.

Speaker 1: 1:20:36

Yeah, and this will be a segment we have this year because it's going to be a learning experience for me, but it's also going to be to see how, how mental, tough, tough I am, as far as you know if I had to figure something out mid round, how am I going to adjust to that and be able to complete a two day tournament with some of the best golfers out there you know that are going to these regionals to play, because, because you know me, I don't want to embarrass myself, I don't want to embarrass my tour and I don't want to embarrass this podcast either. So I got to at least be in the top half, chris, that's my job.

Speaker 2: 1:21:14

That's my job to embarrass podcasts. I'm taking my job from you, but you played in Vegas before, right.

Speaker 1: 1:21:23

I did a while back, I think this is the first year that I became director.

Speaker 1: 1:21:27

I played up there. I don't remember how it went. Honestly, I just want to have a good time to be honest with you, but now that I'm taking this golf game to the next level, I told my buddy last night when we were talking on the phone because he was talking about iron fittings, and I said I think my next iron fitter will be when I get to about five handicap. Right now I'm hovering around a nine, 10. So you know, once you get into the single digits it's a lot harder to get them lower than going from 14 to an 11. So being able to maybe reach these goals might get me there and you know that that's a good motivation to be able to get that low and see what the future holds, at least in my golf bags concern.

Speaker 2: 1:22:18

You know that goes back to. You know when we had the guy from Arcos on this past fall. You know a double digit handicapper. You know a 20 handicapper can drop strokes relatively easy. You know, with some practice and some playing smart. But like you said once you, once you get down to that, that nine area trying to to get it lower, you know the the margin for error is is small. Right, it's a lot harder. So you know that's where you know dropping a stroke or two here on a putt. You know. You know chipping ball just a little bit closer, making sure you're in the fairway. You know. You know from from 40% of time to 70% of time, that's that's where those things are really going to. You know going to show up.

Speaker 1: 1:23:10

Yeah, I mean this. I think this is where it makes or breaks golfers to being. If there's something that you want to be real competitive with, or you know you're okay with having fun but still having low scores and I, my competitive juices are flowing now and I was real competitive in high school with the sports I played, so you better believe now that that it's come back. It's going to be a lot. Let's put it this way the Arizona guys better be scared because I'm coming for all their tournaments. I go visit.

Speaker 2: 1:23:41

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing how you do this year, that's for sure. I'm looking forward to getting this thing rolling. We've got, we're three days away and you know, you say it all the time, you know, once, once the roller coaster gets started, I mean it goes by really, really quick. So you know, we've, we've. We've got not just the icebreaker. This coming weekend We've got a couple of local tours and then, really, from there on out, I think we've got a tournament every weekend between now and the end of September.

Speaker 1: 1:24:14

Yeah, it's going to be nonstop. It's going to be fun. It's always a fun, crazy ride, especially for the directors trying to get everything organized, make sure we get all the other stuff delivered on time and prepared for the tournaments. So it's going to be fun. I can't wait to get it started.

Speaker 2: 1:24:34

Yeah, it's going to be awesome. All right, my friend. So you take care of yourself and I'll see you next weekend.

Speaker 1: 1:24:41

Yes, sir, I can't wait. It's going to be fun. Be safe, all right. See you guys next week.